Primary vs. Secondary Spaces: Trends, Styles, & Budgets

Casey: 00:00:32

Hi, I'm Casey.

Rainey: 00:00:33

And I'm Rainey. Welcome to the Reframing Design podcast. If you're a new designer, a seasoned designer, a homeowner or a home enthusiast, you are in the right place.

Casey: 00:00:44

We are going to talk about all things design. Our stories, our opinions, our experiences. And we're probably going to chase a few rabbits down a few rabbit holes.

But one thing we can guarantee, we will not talk about politics.

Rainey: 00:00:58

Oh, my gosh, I've missed this so much.

Casey: 00:01:00

It has been a hot damn minute since have been sitting together like a summer. Like a summer. A season. It has been a whole season.

Rainey: 00:01:08

Been a whole summer.

Casey: 00:01:10

Wow.

Rainey: 00:01:11

Since I think the beginning of May.

Casey: 00:01:14

Wow. Yeah. Cause this was May20. Wow. We are in it. Okay. So lots of new stuff. Lots of different things.

Rainey: 00:01:21

Lots of new things.

Casey: 00:01:23

So one of the new things is we've changed studios and so now we get to do my for the next unforeseeable future of our filming, which is really exciting and a little nerve wracking because being in Randy's studio has been so lovely and it was so beautiful that I had a high bar and high standard to try and drag this space which this used to just be bookshelves and whatnot.

Rainey: 00:01:49

So your studio is so fabulous. I have always loved your studio because one entire wall from start to finish and even around to the side is windows.

And it's just so life giving and so like when you're in here, you just feel so good about life, like being around you.

Casey: 00:02:10

I love this. And that's why this room didn't make sense. Cause I love being out there, but because I'm like squirrel.

So if people are walking by windows, I get distracted easily.

Rainey: 00:02:23

How much traffic do you get?

Casey: 00:02:24

There's more people use it because the toilets down, down there. Oh, and then we use this for walking. So people just get out of their offices and come walk. So I get little bit. Nothing like yours. Nothing like yours.

But enough to where that the people I see are the ones I want to wave to.

Rainey: 00:02:39

So people don't just walk by our studio. They come in and it's like while that is so lovely, we do have on our window by appointment only, but I'm pretty sure nobody's ever read that ever.

And so they come in and so many of them are lovely people that we just want to hang out with. But.

Casey: 00:02:57

But they can take time sometimes. And if you're in a task.

Rainey: 00:03:02

That's right.

Casey: 00:03:02

Oh, it's hard to get back in the task. But here we are. So this is exciting.

Rainey: 00:03:06

Thank you for opening up your studio.

Casey: 00:03:08

Thank you for giving me a reason to do some fun stuff.

Rainey: 00:03:11

So what is your win? I'm excited to hear.

Casey: 00:03:15

So it's been a trying few months. I, as you know, so had to get surgery on a torn hamstring that I nursed for over 18 months actually. And so that was a big deal.

And it was the win in that was I finally took the time, had the time to do that because work is never really allows for six weeks off of your feet. And so that was phenomenal. And so the win was that even during that process, I really took the time to slow my whole life brain and all.

And I realized I do like going slow on stuff. And it allowed me to even think more about this podcast and how I'm showing up here.

And I tend to zoom through things when it's my turn and don't follow suit because maybe my. I feel like maybe my voice isn't. It should be a listening voice, you know, I should be a listener rather than a speaker all the time.

And I feel like maybe I haven't brought my whole self to the podcast for that. And I don't love that because I, um.

There's probably multiple times where I could have given points that would have either would have helped people who are listening or would have got helped our podcast and by keeping quiet to not be outspoken or be the phrase too big for my britches, which has always been something that sticks in my brain hearing growing up. I don't think that anybody's too big for their britches. Your britches are just the size you're made.

So my britches have gotten bigger because I haven't exercised in two. And I am not too big for them. They are just the right size. And I'll just keep sizing up every time I grow. So that was my win.

It's just literally like learning slow down and also take some space for myself in all the spaces I enter. I love that that's mine.

Rainey: 00:05:04

So I hadn't heard that before you just said that. So it's making me like my reaction is my. My heart just like on the Grinch that Stole Christmas.

My heart just sort of grew because of everybody in this industry. I value what you think and feel and have to say more than anyone. And I think about it often.

And so that makes my heart full because I know how you've shown up and I think if you're gonna show up more, it makes me just wanna scared to death. It just makes me wanna Weep with pride. I am so grateful.

Casey: 00:05:40

Oh, my God, that's so nice.

Rainey: 00:05:41

The flip side of that is, as you know, our production company is always like, rainy, you cannot speak until the person before you stop speaking. And I too have thought about that. And it is my need to make people feel comfortable and heard.

And it comes across as cutting people off, but certainly not my intention. And so I'm excited to see how this goes down today.

Casey: 00:06:07

That's so sweet.

Rainey: 00:06:09

So my win is I. I'm going to admit that I have not been a huge podcast. Podcast listener in the past. And you shared a podcast with me recently that has been just incredibly life altering.

It has changed the way that I think, feel, carry myself, interact with people, and show up in relationships. And that, of course, is Mel Robbins.

And you just shared sort of one of the health, you know, about my health journey and just recently solved a couple of really big issues in my life. And I feel like I'm back. I'm back.

Casey: 00:06:47

Rich is a great Schwarzenegger.

Rainey: 00:06:52

And so I feel like I'm back. But that was the beginning of a journey that has incredibly impacted my life.

And one of the things that she talks about is confidence in her definition of confidence is trying something before you're ready. And I think sometimes we think confidence is this thing where I'm better or if somebody else has confidence, they're better.

And reframing that and saying no, confidence is just trying before you're ready, being willing to try. And so I think we did that with this podcast.

I think when we started this podcast, we were both like, who in the hell would ever want to listen to what we have to say?

Casey: 00:07:35

Just hearing that kind of brings up that past feel fear, right? Of like, what. What do you have to say? What do you know? Why do you think you're worth this?

Rainey: 00:07:43

Whatever.

Casey: 00:07:43

And so we're all.

Rainey: 00:07:44

Turns out we were just confident. So thank you, Mel.

Casey: 00:07:48

Thank you. Thank you, Mel. I think we just need a shout out to Mel Robinson for every thank you there is. Because the people she rings on and shares.

There's few podcast titans in our industry or in our podcast world that share so many resources and to. And it really does.

It does something for them because they're, you know, they're the speaker and they've brought these guests, but they share their wealth in a way that is, it's. Nobody's paying their sponsors, but.

And Luanne Nagar is the other in our industry that does this and she just genuinely curiosity of humanity and every aspect of it and how to how it integrates into people on so many different ways. I think those two women podcasters are doing something unlike others in our lives.

Rainey: 00:08:35

Totally agree.

Casey: 00:08:37

And they're so vulnerable in their questions and authentic personalities. So tired of the word authentic. We need a new one. But anyhow, I love that that is your win, because we could just talk about them all day or her all.

Rainey: 00:08:49

Day, which is what we've done the last couple of times we've seen each other. But.

Casey: 00:08:53

So I love that you're listening, though, because your ears are. You're such a teacher. And so for you to say before you were like, I can't really listen to stuff being taught. And I love that you're.

But you're watching it, too, with Tom. You said you guys kind of watched some of it together.

Rainey: 00:09:09

A couple of them, yeah. Yeah, a couple of them.

Certainly the one with Dr. Doty, which was her most popular podcast ever, and then he sadly died at a very young age, and she replayed it in honor of him.

And so I would say if you were going to listen to only one podcast by Mel Robbins, I suggest you the one with Dr. Doty and that you clear your schedule for an hour and a half because it is incredibly impactful.

Casey: 00:09:38

So it was so beautiful. And I had heard. I shared the other one with you after I had heard him on another podcast, 10% Joy by is it Dan Harris?

I really like him as well, but it was a very different listen than hers. And so I had heard it on there and loved it, like, only a couple weeks ago. So who knows when that was filmed or taped.

And then to hear hers, and it was so different and so beautiful. And he must have known. I mean, anyhow, we can go back, go down rabbit holes on him.

Rainey: 00:10:09

So when I was listening to him, I was listening to hear. Did he sound sick? Did he sound. He was so emotional. And everything he said seemed to just really strike a chord within. Within himself, which I loved.

Casey: 00:10:22

Yeah, yeah. He felt he. He wasn't just speaking at a podcast, he was teaching. And that.

Or if you're going to be on one of these things, people are listening to learn and to get better or feel better in some way. So I love that. So I love that he did that for us anyhow. Yeah. Beautiful.

Rainey: 00:10:45

Well, this art makes me feel bad. What is this gordiousness?

Casey: 00:10:51

So this art is so exciting to me because this is Veronica Vaterat, who is. She's a neighbor of mine, but also became a client a few years back, and so I got to watch her Blossom as an artist.

Because at that time they had had some pretty big, huge things go on in their family. Family health with her daughter and another daughter being home and then the remodel. So they started doing art together.

Just her and her youngest daughter just started. And her youngest daughter was in college, so not like baby. But they just started painting. And it was very elementary and cute and fun.

But her colors were always fantastic. So now over the years, she paints nearly every day. Her art is absolutely stunning. It's her therapy.

And her family feels like they've never seen her happier. But this is sort of her ode to Claude Monet and his flowers on the Seine and. Which is just beautiful.

And she got texture and like the light just sitting here and looking up. I'm seeing it different even than when it was lower. So she just. She's amazing, but she'll do.

She's the one who did the bottle, the champagne bottle for Diane Kell and for hers. And anyhow, she's just uber talented. And her colors and textures just are something else. So I'm tickled pink that we get to do that. But I love it.

Rainey: 00:12:19

I'd like to see more of her art. It's fantastic.

Casey: 00:12:21

It's beautiful, right? Yeah. So thank you for sharing that. Hers is the first one we get to do in the studio, so it's pretty.

Rainey: 00:12:28

Anyway. So what are we talking about today?

Casey: 00:12:31

Let's just jump in. Jump in. What are we talking about today? How we use square footage in our homes.

New construction and remodels and all of the kind of what we're seeing happen more. I struggle with the word trend. You know, trend versus style.

You don't really want to be on trend necessarily, but we have a lot of people who use that word. I don't think either of us designed a trend. Right.

Rainey: 00:12:57

Although I always am asking myself this question. When does a trend become style? Because it feels like at some point there was something that happened and it became a style.

ry modern or something in the: 1940

Casey: 00:13:18

That's a great valid question. That might be an AI question. Because I honestly. And I'm thinking about this because. Okay, so I look at.

I consider a trend when something starts and it's fun and hot and within 72 days, it is now in Target on a plush pillow. You can't that if it's in Target, we are it. No shit to Target.

Rainey: 00:13:40

We love Target.

Casey: 00:13:41

We love. You're great for all the things. But if design related, if it's in there, it's not having. So but for instance, Greek key. That is thousands of years.

If you go back to any, you know, any European city or anything, that design is etched into stone. It's. It's there jewelry, but it still happens. So that would be a style rather than a trend. But it trends sometimes and then it shoots back off.

Rainey: 00:14:06

Right.

Casey: 00:14:07

So. So yeah. What creates that resurgence?

Rainey: 00:14:11

I don't know.

Casey: 00:14:12

I don't know.

Rainey: 00:14:12

Or longevity. I don't know.

Casey: 00:14:14

I know.

Rainey: 00:14:14

It's kind of interesting, right, to think about.

Casey: 00:14:16

It's a concept.

Rainey: 00:14:17

Yeah.

And then when we were talking about this podcast, we started talking about primary spaces versus secondary spaces in the home and sort of how trends and styles play out there and how that impacts budget and how you use your budget in those spaces. So this is a whole, like, it's kind of a meaty topic. Super meaty. I like it.

Casey: 00:14:41

Got some good meat.

Rainey: 00:14:42

Yeah.

Casey: 00:14:42

You coming with your big meat?

Rainey: 00:14:43

Got some big meat.

Casey: 00:14:45

Big, big, big.

Rainey: 00:14:46

Okay. Showing up with your voice. What is something that you have been seeing?

Casey: 00:14:55

So in the primaries, I guess?

Well, actually, the whole house, I think wall, and we talked about this early on, but wall paneling, not even in the slatted wood so much, although that's happening still in acoustic panels.

But just people getting really creative with designs on the walls and having just fun with that option of okay paint, you know, like, I've got clients that just said absolutely zero wallpaper. They do not want it. They're not buying in. They're not buying in. Okay, so how do we make that. That wall precious behind their bed?

Because they're not headboard people either, which makes it really interesting. Interesting. Yeah. But so we did really cool paneling to make and just painted and saturated all, you know, sealing all of it kind of all together.

So it felt a little bit more tailored and classic rather than just trendy.

Rainey: 00:15:44

But it felt rich and gave some weight.

Casey: 00:15:47

Gave some weight to the room. That's a perfect word. So that felt good. So that's one of them.

Rainey: 00:15:53

Yeah. So I certainly consider primary bedrooms a primary space. So I don't.

I'd be interested to hear if your definition of primary versus secondary is the same as mine, but for a primary space, I think of that as anywhere that the homeowners spend their time. So kitchen, living room, parlor, or formal sitting. I know I'm doing a parlor right now. I know it does make you just want to.

Casey: 00:16:24

Oh, my gosh.

Rainey: 00:16:25

Does make you want to do that, right?

And then primary bedrooms and bathrooms and sort of when you're talking about square footage and you're walking with the client through maybe plans for a new home or for a remodel, making sure that they focus their time, effort, energy and resources primarily around the spaces where they're going to be. Is that sort of how you.

And then secondary are the spaces that they don't see their time, like the guest bedrooms, guest bathrooms, maybe a playroom or media room that they don't spend any time in. Really.

Casey: 00:17:05

I agree. Yeah, I think that's true. And then. But they're starting to.

I think the secondaries are no longer sort of that redheaded, like that stepchild that got thrown to the back.

Rainey: 00:17:15

Agree.

Casey: 00:17:15

People still want them to be pretty, but they can't. But the investment is definitely not the same. Right.

Rainey: 00:17:23

I totally agree with that.

Casey: 00:17:24

Mindful. So how do you handle that when you're having that conversation?

Rainey: 00:17:28

Well, certainly if budget is part of the discussion, I want to encourage the homeowner to partner with me in spending those big dollars in those primary spaces, because that's where they're going to be. And usually they require more money.

Like the kitchen certainly is going to require the most money with appliances, countertops, cabinet, cabinets, lighting, all of that and what that entails. And then the living room. Right.

Sort of the place where the family flops and spends most of their time spending the money there to layer in great design.

And then I think the primary bedroom is where you recharge and reset and certainly where you spend quality time and time that's very meaningful with your partner and that should be beautiful.

And so I really ask that we spend the dollars there and then in secondary spaces, do some creative things to, like you said, still make them beautiful, but with less budget.

Casey: 00:18:32

So it's so interesting. And I don't know if you've seen this. It sounds like you. The primary bedroom for so long.

I feel like when things started, when, you know, things started to get cut because inevitably the construction took over, the investment, always budget just went. And so then they were starting to think about bringing their IKEA furniture that they brought from college.

And in the primary bedroom was the one that got the shaft a lot of the times, all of the time it's so frustrating because people want their friends to see the lit. They want the pretty and the money to go where the friends are going to see.

Rainey: 00:19:07

Agreed.

Casey: 00:19:08

Which is sort of hopefully giving way a little bit because people maybe aren't entertaining the way they used to or whatever that thing is. But People are really realizing their bedrooms are their sanctuaries, and they need that space to be pretty.

But do you think there's a reason that shift happened? Because I do think people are starting to really value what their primary. Their bedroom feels like.

Rainey: 00:19:28

I have seen a shift, and part of me wonders, you know, I have to whisper the word Covid.

But I think a lot of times before that, when people were going into the office more, they might have, like, a little desk in their primary bedroom, which just does my head in.

Like, I cannot imagine why you would have a computer and bills in a space where you recharge and rest and all of the things that we do in primary bedrooms. But I think offices became. Or home offices became such a need a lot of times, too. Offices where sound.

There's soundproofing in between, and space where people could really have meetings and work. And then since we were home all the time, there had to be a sanctuary. It was a required sanctuary. And I think maybe that changed the role a little.

Casey: 00:20:23

That would be a really good point on that, because. I don't know. Yeah, no, I think. And people who didn't have the opportunity to have two offices, a lot of were assuming from a bedroom and one was.

And they were doing, you know, they had to do the blackout or the blurred out back because they're doing it from bed. Like, which was apparently a happening all the time. Right. So I think that's a good point.

And it just is really stuck, which there's so many things about after the C word happened that have stuck that I think have been beneficial to us as a society. To slow down and these kind of reclaiming of our spaces and our houses.

And I like that you said the soundproofing between walls, because I think that's something that. Again, when we talk about when we're putting houses together and we're.

Whether it's a new construction or down to the studs, those are those moments to say, okay, this is an opportunity. This is a powder bath. And the powder bath is really close to the kitchen or the living space. Let's soundproof. Put more insulation in here.

Soundproof it a little bit. Give your guests the opportunity to not shave themselves or have to turn the water on or when you're zooming or something.

So those are things that you can think about on that front end. That there might be an extra cost, but it really pays off in the long run that you're not seeing.

Rainey: 00:21:36

Great point.

Casey: 00:21:37

Such things that we pay for that we sucks because we don't see it like foundation or ac. But that one is not the worst.

Rainey: 00:21:46

And it pays off, I think. So we usually now, sort of, as a general point, behind bed walls, we put in extra soundproofing. I just think that's a kindness. Right.

I don't care if it's a guest room.

Certainly in the primary, if there is anything behind that bed wall, which typically there's not, but just thoughtful things that are super impactful, that like you said, nobody will know. But it's certainly appreciated.

Casey: 00:22:14

But if you've ever stayed at someone's house who didn't have it and it's loud or. I'm such a delicate sleeper.

Rainey: 00:22:20

Yeah, my.

Casey: 00:22:21

It drives. I can't. I mean, I. So now I found these new earplugs, by the way, that are unbelievable. But I hear everything, so I don't want to hear everything.

So it's nice when you do go to places and you're like, oh, my gosh. And the doors, you know, the wood doors rather than the, you know, then the hollow doors and all those little things.

But that to think about when you're putting these houses together. And that's part of the investment that you have to. On the front end, talk to people. They're kind about. Right.

Rainey: 00:22:48

And the investment isn't near what it would be to go back and edit later. Yeah.

Casey: 00:22:52

Do it while it's open. Do it while it's open. Agreed.

Rainey: 00:22:55

So what else are you seeing?

Casey: 00:22:57

So I think just those. The. I think you touched on it before, but those saturated rooms where it is taking over the whole space. So there's no longer the accent.

One wall that's happening and we're just sort of taking it all in, which is really beautiful and doing really interesting things in that capacity just to really enrich that space. People are, you know, the bright and cheery. Although, yes, it's happening still, I think people have kind of gone to more. Okay.

No, I almost want this sort of cocoon. Cocoon feel like you're being hugged when you go to bed.

Rainey: 00:23:30

I love it.

Casey: 00:23:31

And the lighting is really taking it. Taking that into account too. Whether it's lamps or sconces by the bedside, which has to be thought, you know, thought through beforehand.

Rainey: 00:23:41

Oh, gosh, those sconces. I mean, let's talk about the number of things you have to talk about. Right.

The size of the bed, the size of the nightstands, the length of the sconce, where the back plate is on the sconce, how tall the nightstand is. I mean, no joke.

Casey: 00:23:58

And then how people want to lean over. If they want it from above, if they want it from the side, how they're going to use them. If it swings, if it doesn't swing. I mean, these.

Rainey: 00:24:05

If there's a switch on the wall or not.

Casey: 00:24:07

It's crazy. And do they. Are both switches on the. Are they on the same switch?

Rainey: 00:24:12

Separate switches.

Casey: 00:24:12

Separate switches. If anybody's asking.

Rainey: 00:24:14

And is there a dimmer? Because sometimes they might want a dimmer. It is so many things to think about. Just by getting that one light fixture in the right place.

Casey: 00:24:24

I mean, so that's why I think lamps are still gonna. They're great.

Rainey: 00:24:28

They have a place.

Casey: 00:24:29

But I've been using. We switch rooms sometimes if I can't sleep or Matt can't sleep, I'll go sleep in one of the boys rooms and Josh's room.

Like I have to take the lampshade off every night. Cause I wanna read. And it just. Something about that. I mean, I guess I could put a brighter bulb, but I don't want the bright bulb when it's just.

But so that's where I'm like, gosh, what could I do here?

Rainey: 00:24:50

You know, what could I do?

Casey: 00:24:51

Yeah, it's always a. What can you do?

Rainey: 00:24:53

Exactly. And so in the saturating or the color drenching, you're doing the door, that side of the door that faces that room, you're doing all of the trim.

Casey: 00:25:06

The trim sometimes.

Rainey: 00:25:07

And the walls.

Casey: 00:25:08

Yes. And.

Rainey: 00:25:09

And ceiling.

Casey: 00:25:10

And ceiling.

Rainey: 00:25:11

Okay.

Casey: 00:25:12

Kind of going all in.

Rainey: 00:25:13

So full on color drenching.

Casey: 00:25:15

Full on color drenching. I love that.

Now if it's too dark of a color and we need some interest, there's some playing with the trim, taking it down a few shades or whatever that looks like. But it's not quite that contrast necessarily of the pure white with the black or whatever, you know, Although it's fun. Not in a bedroom.

I think it's sort of that saturated.

Rainey: 00:25:36

I love that. And also bedrooms naturally have full architectural break. So we have a place to. To change the paint. Right. I was working with a client.

I had a meeting late yesterday just to walk through. And they wanted to know if a nook could be color saturated. But there's no break in the ceiling. Right.

And so the point is you'd have to create sort of an architectural break, like drop a tiny fur down or something. There has to be something because there has to be a place for that paint to stop to color saturate.

A place that doesn't have a door and isn't fully enclosed.

Casey: 00:26:11

So what'd you decide to do? Or did you guys.

Rainey: 00:26:13

We don't. We are. They're not my client yet. It was just a walkthrough. And there was a couple of questions along the way. So no decision there.

Casey: 00:26:22

But it got your wheels spinning.

Rainey: 00:26:24

Yeah.

Casey: 00:26:24

And it does have. You think. Actually, when you are. We're on these other things. And sometimes we're looking at the plans 2D, and you haven't really thought through it.

Even if you have an elevation, it's 2D, you know, you're not seeing it necessarily in a rendering form. And so they put it in, and you're like. You get to the moment and go, that's exactly right. We hadn't thought this through.

Cause we're doing an entry, and it's this really. It's a really long entryway. And they had the homeowner. It's where she grew up. It was her father's house. And then they tore the house down.

But they saved a bunch of the wood for the floors.

Rainey: 00:26:56

Oh, I love that.

Casey: 00:26:56

Or for anything. And they were gonna maybe do a wall or a ceiling. And so we decided, like, let's do the entry. But it's so long.

And the architect had put in just kind of phobe, you know, moments of, like, breaks. And so we've created that in that first entry. Because there wasn't enough to do the whole pattern with the break in it. Right. But then where do you.

How far do you take it? Within that threshold, even. Right. So then stacking it on. So it's just always those moments for creativity. But if you're.

If we think it or draw it, and then you get. You're standing in the space and it's doesn't come out like it was gonna be on that plan.

Rainey: 00:27:33

We have to take power.

Casey: 00:27:34

That's why we have to be doing these walkthroughs with people.

Rainey: 00:27:36

Power of having an interior designer to say, let's mash the pause button and rethink this.

Casey: 00:27:42

Yes. And what can we do? And of course, you need the wood guy. You know, you need everybody on board. Because this wood's this much and this wood's this.

Yeah. It's just all of those little moments that we get to play.

Rainey: 00:27:53

But at the end, they're my favorite.

Casey: 00:27:55

They are always. Because it took more thought than just sort of slap it on and go. Cause we are a little bit. I don't wanna say mechanical whatsoever.

Cause that sounds un yummy. But we have our ideas, and we just sort of start going with them. Because it's in our brain already.

You've walked through this house and I'm sure you've already totally redesigned it and kind of know where everything's gonna be. Just. You get it instantly when you walk in.

Rainey: 00:28:21

Exactly.

Casey: 00:28:22

So when you. We have to stop and push the mask button and get more creative. It's fun.

Rainey: 00:28:27

So in this idea of secondary and primary spaces and spending the bigger dollars in the primary spaces. When we go to secondary, I was thinking through some of the ways that we work with clients to cut the investment there but still bring the beauty.

One of the things that we do is we go from maybe custom bedding to ready made bedding. Right. What are some other things that you've done to sort of cut that budget?

Casey: 00:28:58

Bedding is one big one. Window treatments. We kind of talked about that. That's another one that you might semi custom or even just store.

You know, through one of our vendors who makes beautiful stuff. We know they're tried and true. But it doesn't have to be the whole $10,000 situation. And then a paint versus if you were. Somebody might wallpaper.

But we could use fun paint or a different kind of thing going on behind a bed or something to make that special headboard. Something. You know. It doesn't have to be the big. The full bed even.

It could be a headboard if they're got pretty bedding and stuff to kind of tuck around. I don't. There's so many little things that we have to think about in there.

Rainey: 00:29:36

I think secondary spaces too. I don't know if this is true for you. Reusing their furniture, but maybe reusing it in a special way in a way they haven't thought of before.

For example, maybe there's that chair that was just sort of stuck in the living room. Didn't quite fit. And you take it and you put it in a. In a secondary space. Maybe recover it. Throw a gorgeous pillow in it.

Certainly budget friendly, right?

Casey: 00:30:01

Yes. And it gives your guest, if it's a guest staying in there, a place to sort of have their.

I do believe that every guest room should have a comfortable chair.

Rainey: 00:30:10

Agreed.

Casey: 00:30:10

With an ottoman and a blanket. It just like. I don't care where it has to go. Hang it from the ceiling. But like there's nothing. Because.

Rainey: 00:30:17

Do you always have room for an ottoman?

Casey: 00:30:19

Well, something. Or even if it's a bench that comes over. Just something. Because I'm a big. I like a foot up. I. Or to.

I want to get away from people sometimes my morning routine not get away. I Want to start my day without people because I will go hard all day. So I need that. So I need that kind of corner to start in.

I find it helpful and maybe not an ottoman. Something though that I can prop your feet up. My feet on or at least be comfortable roll my feet up into.

But yeah, what's your sort of in a secondaries. We say secondaries, but secondaries is where our kids grow up. So they're not exactly like not used. We want those spaces to still be exactly.

Rainey: 00:30:59

They're not just the people that pay the bill aren't living there. That's totally it.

Casey: 00:31:03

And I think I was thinking about this in our own house because we've got all this work being, you know, we're kind of putting stuff together to maybe transition the house and you know, our game room and stuff has been loved on for years and years with our kids up there. And I often, you hear people say I don't, you know, just throw the old stuff up there or whatever.

And although that's true and it's money saving, but I also like the idea that these spaces still, that's where kids are growing up and we. Not that they have to be beautiful or expensive, but thoughtful because where we are, our space dictates how we feel.

And if that is where you're spending your free time playing, then create that space for your children or your people to really foster that. Because like we're sitting here in the studio and it feels fantastic in this segment right here.

But I'll have Mariana or we'll rock around this thing after to show the shit show that is around it because I had to get it ready and we're doing all this and it's stressing me out out there. And so if your secondaries or your playrooms are like that, that's wreaking havoc on your inner your kiddos and their friends.

So anyways, I'm just preaching that because it really hit me yesterday as we were kind of doing some stuff in ours that I love that the boys friends has grown up in this space just because it was important to me to have it. You know, I want to be able to go up and hang and not be thinking, criticizing it, being like, oh, this couch. But anyways, I love that.

Rainey: 00:32:40

One of the things that I love to have love to consider in secondary bedrooms, for example, is I see oftentimes that people want a king bed. So they'll force a king bed and there'll be one nightstand and on the other side there's nothing or it's jammed up against a wall.

And if you've ever been in a room like that and there are two people staying in that bed, and you have the side of the bed that has nowhere to put your phone, your charger, your book, you're reading, your glasses so you can see in the morning a light so you can read. It just feels kind of crappy to be on that side. So I'm really big on. If I can talk homeowners into. Let's go down to a queen.

Put small nightstands on each side, so. So that each person staying in this room has a place to anchor their stuff and things.

Casey: 00:33:25

That's a good point. So would you rather have the king bed with only one nightstand or two? You know, a queen with both? So I'd be curious, because some people.

I love that question, because I completely agree. If you're the one against the wall, like, you start to hyperventilate, like, you can't. Yeah, I feel like.

Rainey: 00:33:45

And then also crawling out of bed in the middle of the night to use the potty, because we're old and we go potty in the night.

Casey: 00:33:51

It happens.

Rainey: 00:33:51

Um, and I just always think that it's nice to have that passing space.

Casey: 00:33:56

That's the passing is a big. Is something. You want to have that space.

Rainey: 00:34:00

You want to have that space. And so I much rather. And then also making the bed, right? It's just much easier to make the bed.

If you've ever made a bunk bed or a bed that's jammed up against the wall. Hate, right? Like, you hate your whole life.

Casey: 00:34:13

It's like putting a pig in a skirt. Like, it's just like. You're like, come on. Come on. Get in here, babe. Come on, Sally. But Jake, the baby of our home, he loves his bed against the wall.

And when he leaves or goes away to school. Back to school. I bring that thing away and I just give it some air. But he. I mean, that is the first thing. He's really secure like that. And he always.

That's just his way, which I think is adorable.

Rainey: 00:34:39

I love that.

Casey: 00:34:40

But I think about that, because when I do make his bed or do anything, this is a lot. This is like a bunk bed.

Rainey: 00:34:48

This is the whole thing. I think another way to sort of stretch the budget in a secondary bedroom is we're not doing sconces on the wall there, right? No, we're doing lamps.

And those lamps do not have to come from some exquisite vendor. A great lamp in that room can cost you $200 and be gorgeous and lovely.

Casey: 00:35:09

And lovely. And the lamp shade, maybe you have the lamps already, and it's the shade that's a little bit janky. Okay.

So we were talking podcast, so Cory Damon, he has his YouTube channel now doing his, which is amazing.

Rainey: 00:35:23

Unbelievable.

Casey: 00:35:24

But he talked about. He puts on the inside of his lampshades a pink fabric on the insides, because the hue that it throws off. And in a bedroom, it must be absolutely.

So beautiful, the lighting. So I'm just throwing that out because if you haven't watched his, by the way, tips are so phenomenal. And he shares everything.

But I love that idea because I think there's a lot you can do with just the shade if we are having to think about it. So even changing that out or changing the end. Yeah, I love just a lamp.

Rainey: 00:35:58

Yeah. Yeah.

Casey: 00:35:59

Lamps are tricky.

Rainey: 00:36:00

They can be really tricky.

Casey: 00:36:02

Right?

Rainey: 00:36:02

Yeah. And don't discount the. The shade color. It will impact the entire space. Change the color of everything in it, including your paint.

Casey: 00:36:11

It will. And so those are the things you have to really think about.

Rainey: 00:36:15

It's true.

Casey: 00:36:15

Do you like a duvet cover or do you do comforter?

Rainey: 00:36:18

So for my personal bed, I have a duvet that's folded at the end of the bed. Right. And then we have lovely linens, Bella note linens. We have a coverlet that we sleep with.

And then my menopause friendly cold blanket, which, you know, well, I have a second one that's smaller that travels with me everywhere, which is why I'm always with a large suitcase so that I can sleep. But for clients, that's a big questionnaire question for us. Right. How do you sleep? And a lot of times the partners sleep differently.

So we have to take that into consideration around bedding in the primary. One of the things, one of the trends that we're seeing is we're seeing less pillows. You know, it used to be in a king bed, €3, 2 standards.

And then you would have 2 or 3 or 4 or 12 or 92 throw pillows.

Casey: 00:37:16

What movie was that where he's like, ends up stabbing. He's like, the pillows. Seven minutes a day, I'm standing, pulling these off, putting them back.

Rainey: 00:37:22

Yeah. And if you extrapolate that out of Lifetime, it's like two years of your.

Casey: 00:37:26

Life taking off pillows and off pillows. Yeah.

Rainey: 00:37:28

So we're seeing many, many fewer pillows now. Maybe just three, maybe two king size and a great accent pillow or lumbar.

Casey: 00:37:39

The king bed size or anything like that, which I'm still a big fan of. But I. It's so interesting. And the Dutch size versus yarrow, like all of these different little things, which it does keep us on our toes.

Rainey: 00:37:50

It does. Another reason why we go to market or we go to CEUs or we keep up with emails from vendors or like, what is going on?

Casey: 00:37:59

What is going on? Because if we just did our only our work, which we could do very easily, we wouldn't know all of these things.

Because sometimes I'm like, oh, who's that again? Yeah, because I'm just in it. I don't sometimes look up enough to kind of go looking if we want.

Rainey: 00:38:16

That's exactly right.

Casey: 00:38:17

And so what do you see? You know, TVs of course still are everywhere, but I think people want to see them far less.

And so one of the things, and I think on something I got, we were at a place in Japan where they had the TV in it. The way it was hidden through the beautiful slotted wood opened kind of just really easily that you know, then shows the, the tv.

But you did, you thought it was just a wall feature. Didn't realize There was a TV back there.

And then I was with, on a FaceTime with some friends the other night, just from other states and we were talking about TVs and art. And so Jillian Downham, who's a good friend and beautiful artist, so talented artist, amazing.

But she got up and showed me because she's like, no, I've covered mine with, with a piece of art. So it's a humongous, you know, you out, you frame it out and then put a hum.

I think she's got a four foot hinge and so this big piece of art that she's, you know, hinged the canvas.

But the way, because she's an artist, doesn't look like it's two pieces and then it just kind of canvases back or Lisa said, you know, hers is doing this. It just made it like okay because they have the art TVs and they have these mirror TVs.

Rainey: 00:39:30

And I was gonna say it makes me feel crappy because I, I feel so good about my art TV with the frame on it.

Casey: 00:39:35

No, I'm like, and those are beautiful too. No, but those are beautiful. But that's. That went away. That took the TV away and that was that.

And then it's like, okay, so now what's this next thing? People don't even want to know. Oh, it's up there. Or, or so many rooms don't have as many walls.

So where do you get to put your beautiful big art so here you go. Kind of have it in these spaces.

Rainey: 00:39:54

Great point. Do you have an art tv?

Casey: 00:39:57

God, no.

Rainey: 00:39:58

Okay.

Casey: 00:39:58

Ours is so janky. Theo.

Rainey: 00:40:01

So Theo. Theo the dog.

Casey: 00:40:03

Theo the dog. He's triggered on the tv. He's just crazy. But he. He scratches at the tv.

It's kind of up and hung and it's on an arm and so he fights with it and he'll jump up and bite at it if like there's anything happening. And so Matt and I just gave up the fight. And so when it's off, you can see it just. It's just clawed. It looks like a cat.

Looks like something horrible happened.

Rainey: 00:40:27

It does.

Casey: 00:40:27

It's like what happened to your tv? It's so bad. So there's no way. Until we can put that thing somewhere where he can't get to it, there's no way.

But now that I have this concept, I'll think about it more next time.

Rainey: 00:40:40

Right.

Casey: 00:40:41

But in our room. I guess he doesn't do that in there.

Rainey: 00:40:43

I love that. Anyway, so one other thing that I thought that really comes to mind, we're talking about trends is the coffee bar moment.

Are you seeing like coffee bars just. They used to be non existent and then they became sort of something that was special or maybe it has passed a trend, I don't know.

And become something that's just a requirement.

Casey: 00:41:09

I like how you. Yes. People are not even questioning it now. Like it used to be something that we felt really good about offering to them. Like, oh, you like coffee?

What if we did this? I was like, like this brilliant idea. And now it's expected. It's kind of expected. And how are you gonna be like up that level?

Yeah, this actually, this client, Veronica, for their house, we did it and we used a pot filler because it was. Of course it's in a different area. And that was sort of that big question mark.

Cause you're so used to just taking your little coffee, you know, Mr. Coffee Pot over and filling it. And so with it being a complete departure from the kitchen, it then, you know, plumbing and everything that goes into that.

The pot filler, all that fun stuff. If you're not doing like a miele or something like that. That's kind of a built in.

Rainey: 00:41:52

Yep.

Casey: 00:41:52

Which obviously are fantastic too, but amazing. Everybody's going that direction quite yet. And then put them in kids or. Sorry, in bedrooms as well. Or take putting them in.

Rainey: 00:42:02

There you go. I was going to ask you, are you seeing them there?

Casey: 00:42:05

Yeah, it's great.

Rainey: 00:42:07

And then the change in Code where now you can't have pot fillers if there's not a sink below it. So that's been a whole thing because of flooding, I guess, or leaking.

Casey: 00:42:19

I'm doing this blinking thing because I don't even know this. It's new since they did the no outlets on the island. Is that the same kind of deal?

Rainey: 00:42:28

Yeah, same thing. So, you know, sometimes if a pot filler shows up after final inspection, like, that's none of my business. Right. So you just have to.

Or you make sure that you have room for a sink.

But I love the idea of coffee bars in the vestibule because especially if you entertain a lot or you have kids that are college age and they're getting up and doing their thing and you're not ready. Like you said, you journal and take your moment. And once you go in the kitchen, game on. You're game. People are talking. Your day started. Right.

And so if you. We're doing a lot of vacation homes because people are like. When people. Our whole family's here.

Like, we don't want to see them till 11 and coffee starts at 8. So they want the full setup. Right. Refrigerator for the creamer, the whole thing.

Casey: 00:43:18

And so I love that.

Rainey: 00:43:21

Yeah.

Casey: 00:43:21

I think. I think people are just taking time to genuinely decide. And I think.

Well, whether people are taking time or us as designers are taking time with our clients to find out what that looks like. And people get to rewrite how they really want their days to go and start and end. And it's really cool because everybody's is different.

Rainey: 00:43:45

It's exactly right.

Casey: 00:43:46

I think that's amazing that what you've seen and shared and like, we're just. You're good at like your questionnaire and your inquisitiveness and curiosity, which is huge.

Getting to the nuts and bolts of how that morning wants to start and who. They're different starts even within the same couple and endings. Yeah. So how that marries is really interesting. Yeah. So super impactful. I love that.

Rainey: 00:44:14

I know. I've been really focusing on how I end my days because I got this aura ring.

Casey: 00:44:19

Yes.

Rainey: 00:44:19

I was gonna ask you, and I've been super focused. I've had it for a whole week.

Casey: 00:44:24

Okay.

Rainey: 00:44:25

But at the end of a week, like last. Yes. Yesterday, I got to see, like, it takes all this information and it gives you sort of summaries about your life.

It turns out that I am a little more stressed than I ever thought that I was at different points in the day. And I need to focus on the Recovery of that. Right.

But at points where it shows that I'm really low stress, I am sitting in my library reading, and I have my dogs with me. And so it's really. So I'm trying to think, how can I have more of that in my life? How can I make more space for that in my life?

And that's how I've started ending my days. Instead of watching TV until I almost fall asleep and then go to bed. So I'm falling asleep a lot faster. Quality of sleep is better.

So it's helping me to attend to that. Right. And so the library in our home has become even more important than it was.

Casey: 00:45:19

I love that.

Rainey: 00:45:21

Yeah. And the lighting again. And the lighting you cannot be having.

Casey: 00:45:27

No fluorescent, no bright light, airport lighting. No airport lighting. I think even airports have changed in certain ways. I don't.

I was at IAH the other, and something about it was like, they just created that whole area with all the new restaurants and bars. Oh, my God, it's amazing.

Rainey: 00:45:43

Amazing.

Casey: 00:45:44

But that lighting is different than the rest of the space, which was really cool to see. They're getting it. But you and I just. The stress both walked into the bathroom and here.

And I was so happy to hear you say instantly, God, this lighting is awful. Because I walk in there, and I'm like. And I'm 132 again, because that.

Rainey: 00:46:01

And my eyes are bleeding.

Casey: 00:46:02

Of course. I look in, and my bags look like we're going on vacation for a month. But I think in other areas. But it's. I'll blame the lighting. It's definitely not.

Rainey: 00:46:11

And it impacts your spirit, your soul, your mind is so impactful, it might.

Casey: 00:46:18

Yeah. Trigger. So I love. Okay, I think. I love that.

Rainey: 00:46:23

I love today's conversation.

Casey: 00:46:25

I didn't sell my aura ring.

Rainey: 00:46:27

I did you have an aura ring and get rid of it.

Casey: 00:46:30

I did.

Rainey: 00:46:31

So tell me.

Casey: 00:46:32

Well, no, I loved the direction it was giving me. What I didn't love was I'd wake up and feel like, oh, my God, I slept so well.

And then I instantly look at my app, and it told me I didn't sleep well. And then I thought, oh, I'm tired.

Rainey: 00:46:45

I'm gonna have a shitty day. You know, it has done the exact opposite for me, is I'm like, oh, my gosh. I didn't sleep well at all. I don't know how I'm gonna get through my day.

And I look at it. It's like, you had a 94 optimal sleep score. And I'm like, well, look at Me lying to myself. It's gonna be a boss day.

So it's done the exact opposite for me.

Casey: 00:47:07

Mindset is everything. And so that just maybe it's gotten.

Rainey: 00:47:11

Better too, because this is the four. Okay, so maybe you had, like, an earlier version.

Casey: 00:47:17

One that didn't lie to me and say you. One that didn't know from my app, literally, you need to tell her she's pretty, she doesn't have bags, and she's left like a baller.

Rainey: 00:47:28

That's right. And we're going to feed her tacos. Yeah.

Casey: 00:47:31

No, but I love that. But I.

Because I really appreciated all of the instruments on it, but I was like, at that time in my life, I kind of felt I was a little too rigid because it was when I was waking up at four to go, you know, like, it was a very.

Rainey: 00:47:45

Rigid time to run 100 miles.

Casey: 00:47:46

Well, yeah. It's during training. Yeah. So it was a different time when rigid. Rigidity was my life. And I'm softening, but I. So I'd like to maybe try it now.

It might be kind of interesting to see.

Rainey: 00:47:56

I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about that.

Casey: 00:47:58

But.

Rainey: 00:47:59

But I love today's conversation.

Casey: 00:48:01

It was so good.

Rainey: 00:48:02

So good. Good.

Casey: 00:48:03

Got to points, because I love that you said that you were given tips that you kind of talk or guide the listener. Hello, color. I'm listening. And I got points of. Would you please just land on something like, oh, sure.

Rainey: 00:48:18

From our production company.

Casey: 00:48:20

Yes. Just land on two topics. Can you give us something to sound bite with? Because there's zero. You're just like a butter, just sort of going.

And there's nothing landed. So I hope something landed today, but if not, there's always next time.

Rainey: 00:48:33

I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Casey: 00:48:34

This was fun as well. So fun.

Rainey: 00:48:37

So if you want to reach out to us, you can email us@reframingdesign.com Certainly. Follow us on Instagram, like, and share us. You can follow me at Randy Richardson Interiors on Instagram and you can follow me on kc.

Casey: 00:48:53

Nope, you can't. I mean, you could, but that's my personal Cassandra Brandinteriors. And again, please share your art with us.

If you have anything that you're proud of that you love that you want to share with us. So we can put it up here because it really does. It makes a difference.

And if you're only listening, Please go to YouTube so you can see the beautiful stuff, too, because, yeah, it's worth seeing.

Rainey: 00:49:14

It's worth it.

And if you've ever thought about primary spaces, secondary spaces, and how you budget and and approach those things based on trends, trends and styles. We hope that that we've given you just little nuggets to hang onto and maybe use in your personal life. Thank you so much for joining us.

Casey: 00:49:31

Thanks.

Outro: 00:49:34

That's a wrap for this episode of Reframing the Art of Interior Design. We hope you had a blast and found some inspiration to bring your dream space to life. Feeling inspired to start your own home transformation?

Contact us@helloeframingdesign.com we want to help you make it happen. Don't forget to subscribe, share and leave a review this show was edited and produced by Truthwork Media.

Until next time, remember, your space is your story. Make it beautiful.